Classroom Conversations: Kathryn Anstaett and Ciana Lawhead
When we asked Ciana Lawhead, United’s Alumni Services Associate, who she would choose for a meaningful conversation, she immediately responded, “Kathryn. She was a huge part of my middle school career.” Kathryn, United’s President and Chief Schools Officer, quickly agreed.
This leads us to the Alumni Services room at our Main St. middle school campus, the day after the first-ever Alumni Reunion hosted by the Alumni Services Team. As seen in an article later in The Huddle, nearly 100 former staff and students had RSVP’d to reconnect with their middle school peers.
As Ciana and Kathryn reflect on the stages of their relationship and the evolution of United Schools, both developing for over a decade, their conversation naturally revisits the moving and joyful moments of the previous night’s reunion. Their dialogue offers a glimpse into United Schools' past, present, and future, showcasing the deep bonds formed within our community.
Kathryn: How was the rest of last night?
Ciana: It was so fun.
Kathryn: I missed more people [after leaving early]!
Ciana: I know!
Kathryn: I’m having extreme FOMO. Did everyone stay the whole time?
Ciana: A lot of people stayed the whole time. A bunch of us were still there past nine — just good vibes.
Kathryn: Oh, good! That’s so great. Okay, I have my questions up! I brought like twenty questions. We’ll have to do a follow-up! [Kathryn and Ciana laughing].
The Huddle: To get started, can you both please introduce yourselves to our readers and explain, just briefly, how you two know one another?
Kathryn: I’m Kathryn! I’m the President and Chief Schools Officer at United Schools. Formerly the School Director at CCA-Dana Ave., I know Ciana because she was in the first class at CCA-Dana Ave., so I was her School Director-slash-Teacher-slash…
Ciana: Slash-everything.
Kathryn: Slash-several-other-things that year, for the three years she was at the school. Now, we’re co-workers — which is pretty cool!
Ciana: Yeah! Kathryn did a great job at explaining it. I’m Ciana. Kathryn was my School Director when they opened CCA-Dana. The school did a great job of recruiting my mom to have faith in them, so I first entered CCA-Dana in my sixth-grade year, starting class, and now I’ve come back here to work for Alumni Services.
Ciana: Kathryn, it has been almost 12 years since you met me as a little sixth grader. What has changed the most about you and your life since then? And what do you think has changed the most about me?
Kathryn: Wow! So, twelve years ago! What’s probably changed the most about me is having my own kids. When I met you guys, you guys were my kids, honestly. You guys were definitely my babies in a certain way.
Opening the school was a dream come true for me. I never thought it would work, happen, or be successful, so that was my life. I was married when I started the school. You probably saw my husband often; I always made him come in and do stuff.
Personally, the biggest thing that’s changed has been having my kids. Do you remember when I was pregnant with Rosie? You were still a student. Then, I had my son, John. Being a parent has helped me, I think, maintain the same passion for my work but also consider how to have more of a work-life balance to make sure I’m giving my kids what I want them to have in the same way I still want our students to have.
For you, it’s hard to say, Even as a sixth-grader, you were always a very serious child! Very focused, wise. You’re still all those things. I always knew you would be successful, so I’m not surprised to see how successful you are today. From my vantage point, the things that have changed the most about you are probably that you were one of those kids who I could tell a lot of times there was something you wanted to say, you would hold back and not open up as much. I don’t think you and I had a super close relationship when you were at school; you were a great kid and involved, but we probably weren’t super close. Now, what I see from you is that you’re definitely willing to speak your mind. I can see in all the things you’ve been involved in—through your church, through college—that you are all about empowering people and making sure that you and others speak up for what’s right: voice yourself. I don’t know if you would feel that way about yourself as a kid, but you seemed slightly reserved in middle school.
Ciana: Yeah.
Kathryn: Maybe you weren’t outside of the classroom, but you were in the classroom.
Ciana, laughing: I was a Class-Five Goody-Two-Shoes!
Kathryn: I like a Goody-Two-Shoes!
Ciana: Anything I was supposed to do was done.
Kathryn: Love it.
Kathryn: I’m so curious, especially for the first class. We’re walking around town to find children on the streets and get them to come to our school. [Laughing]. Which is so weird. Do you remember when you and your parents first started talking about CCA? And what you, as a ten or eleven-year-old, initially thought about going to a brand new school at the time?
Ciana: Yeah! I feel like I was there when you guys knocked on the door and asked my mom about the school, and I was very upset with her for her decision. Because I moved halfway through my elementary school career, I had my elementary school friends that I would graduate with, and they were all going to Starling. We took a tour of Starling as a class, and I thought, “This is going to be great,” and my mom said, “No, we’re not doing that! You’re going to this school!”
So, in the beginning, I was very hesitant. Despite all of her good reasons, although I did care about my education, my education was very important to me even as a child. I was very upset with my mom.
But, going into the school, I felt like I had a lot of fun and opportunities that other kids who were going to Starling might not have. Since it was so small, it really felt like family with that starting class. Especially to grow with them throughout the year; the sense of community I had at CCA-Dana Ave. wasn’t something I felt at West High School, a bigger school, and I still knew everybody, but the sense of community was really. So, yeah, I was against it at first, but by the end of the year, I was happy to be coming back. It was a lot of fun.
Ciana: You have stayed with United Schools since the very beginning, and now you’re the President of this nonprofit. What has drawn you towards this specific school network?
Kathryn: I started the second year. I wasn’t here the very first year, but what initially drew me was that right out of college, I worked in St. Louis as a high school Spanish teacher and at a charter school. It was a super-resourced school, so we had everything. This was in 2007. We had flatscreen TVs as our projectors. It was awesome. We were in this old warehouse that was redone. The classrooms were awesome. We had air conditioning.
It had everything you’d ever want, but the adults running the school were fine people but were absolutely not on the same page about the school's purpose or vision. The management company was a for-profit company, which was part of the problem. They were about making money. The effect on teachers and students was that there was no vision for the school, and there were always competing priorities. It really led to this super dysfunctional environment to the point where the second year they increased enrollment, doubled enrollment; they actually took it from a K-12 to just a high school and doubled the enrollment, and it became very violent and chaotic, and kids were just totally not being served, and it was awful. So I went, okay, I love teaching. I love everything about being a teacher, but this isn’t it! This is not it.
I had heard about the program that Andy did through Teach For America. This guy is doing this thing in Columbus, where I’m from. I came and just visited, and they had nothing! No flatscreen TVs, no classroom walls, no school building. It was in the basement of a church! But all those other things were there; all the people and adults were on the same page about what was best for kids, and it was electric: Yes, this is what I want to do. That's what hooked me, and that’s never changed. I think, as we’ve grown, it’s been harder to, in every single classroom and every single corner, to have as much cohesion as we always did in the early days, but, for the most part, that’s never changed, and that’s what’s kept me.
I said, when I got home [from the reunion] last night, I’m addicted to [situations like] that. What’s better than doing something and having amazing, grown-adult people who want to return to their middle school and hang out with their old teachers and friends? You know something’s gone right. Not everything’s gone right, but you know something’s gone right if these amazing people want to return to something you were a part of. That, to me, is just completely addicting. I don’t want ever to do anything different than that. This is a good day to do this [interview] after last night.
Kathryn: What did you think my job was when you were a student?
Ciana: I don’t really remember! The thing about the beginning of CCA-Dana Ave. is that everybody’s job was everything. Like, Mr. McClellan was my School Director, my Dean of Students at one point, also my History and Science Teacher at one point. He was probably Dean of Academics at some point, but I don’t know! He did everything, and so it was similar [for you]. I didn't see you often when we were in the Boys and Girls Club, sixth-grade year, but I saw you a lot more when we got our own building. I think I thought you were a principal.
Kathryn: You were in [the classroom named] Kent State, right?
Ciana: Yeah! I definitely knew you were somewhere up there [in position]! I was a good kid, so I never had to be sent to speak to the principal or School Director!
Ciana: This is such a fun one! So, CCA-Dana Ave. has changed quite a bit since the first graduating class. What do you miss that CCA-Dana used to do, and what do you really love that they do now?
Kathryn: Something I miss, though there are different things now that I might not know as much about, but I miss some of the high culture things we used to do. I really miss the spirit stick presentations. We would put so much time and effort—when we’d pick you guys, a teacher would put a lot of time and effort into creating a presentation for the spirit stick recipient. It would always be a surprise at the end, and you’d think about the special thing about this kid we can make this whole presentation about. I can remember some of them, like one that I did about Cierra, which was about her being Scout from To Kill a Mockingbird, which was also my nickname as a kid because I looked like Scout from the movie. I had a picture of myself as a kid and talked about all the characteristics of Scout, which we had been reading in 8th grade. There were so many great presentations. It was a really good relationship-building thing; it showed the relationship. It made public the deep relationships teachers and staff had with students where you could do something like that. I do miss some of those things—the chants, the spirit stick presentations.
Some of the things that Dana does now that I think are really cool — there’s a lot! It’s kind of cooler, kids have a lot more fun. I love the additions to the uniform; I think they’re much more flexible [Ciana: Yeah!], I think kids are more comfortable and can be themselves. It’s still a uniform, but I think kids can be themselves a little bit more in the uniform, which I think is great. The Dana Carnival is so much fun. They find more ways to bring people into the building: ProMusica and Winter Wonderland. There are so many more things to do at school that we couldn’t do back in the day.
Kathryn: You were an exemplary student, Ciana. Did you know that at the time? Did you know that of yourself when you were a student in middle school?
Ciana, hesitantly: Yes… Mainly because when you go to a traditional public school, they’ll pull you for gifted and talented programs and things like that. I had people speaking that into me at a young age. I think I just knew that I cared a lot about discipline. I did not want to be in trouble, so anything I had to do was what I’d do.
Kathryn: Okay, so you knew you were a good student. You were smart, you were well-behaved — discipline is a good way to put it. If you knew you had homework, you’d put time aside. How were we, as a staff, successful in helping you internalize your success? What did we do well to make you or help you get that self-confidence, that understanding that you were a great student and a good person worth pouring into yourself and others?
Ciana: I think something that you mentioned earlier, Spirit Stick. Highest paycheck. All of those things: little awards you could strive for. When you earned that, you just knew you did something right. I feel like working towards that and actually getting that when it was your time to shine on a big basis. I think they gave out sashes, but mine was “Miss Independent,” I still have it now! Those little things.
Two, I feel like there were procedures that gave me confidence in the classroom, which had much to do with the community. You feel safe with the people around you and the teachers are very committed to ensuring every person in the class is engaged, so there is that high commitment to ensure students are engaged. I remember those little [popsicle] sticks where teachers would call on a random student — those little moments. I feel like when CCA first began, we had a morning break and an afternoon snack where teachers were in the classroom, it wasn’t instructional time, and I got to talk to my teachers every day during that time. Staff members were making rounds, encouraging, and giving the option to make little notes on your homework redos. It had a lot to do with the strong community base that let me feel safe to do things. When a teacher thought something good about you, they didn’t just keep it to themselves, the whole world knew how a teacher felt about you and all the good things they had to say about you. And that’s a big confidence builder; in elementary school, I knew I was a good student, but it wasn’t something that was broadcast to the school. So those little moments of “I did really great this week, and everybody here knows it, and that’s awesome.”
Kathryn: What could we have done better in that regard? I’m also thinking, now, you were a top-tier student. I don’t know if you had conversations with kids who were struggling more — we were talking about a student last night who struggled a lot and is still struggling as an adult. How was that environment for kids who weren’t ever on the [honor roll or spirit stick] list?
Ciana: The school's procedures and structure were great for me for that second question. I struggled on the flip end. I started at a high–performing high school, so that was a workload that prepared me for college. I transferred to a failing school; there was less opportunity to be challenged. By the time I graduated, I had become very lazy regarding academics. I didn’t need to study to pass, I never got homework; I can hardly remember ever getting assignments in school. You did in-class work, and you turned it in, which was fine, and, most of the time, it took me like the first 10 minutes of class and then you have 40 minutes to sit around. By the time I got to college, I felt like I was very lazy and didn’t know how to work, so when I went to college, I remember that was the first time I ever failed a test. I went into the bathroom and cried! Like, oh my god, I’ve never been on this side of things.
So, I feel like, even if they aren’t earning those high grades, if you’re maintaining C’s and able to pass at CCA, that’s still putting you in [a good] place – so when you’re in college, you’re used to that work ethic that it takes to get at least a “C” level which is what you need to really pass and move along in college, depending on your major or program. I feel like the workload can be annoying for students in middle school, but looking back now, it’s why I was so prepared, and I wish I had gone to a high school that also gave me a similar workload so I would have maintained that constant.
That's another thing, too, it was very consistent. It was like you built a routine that would help you succeed for all of high school and hopefully all of college. There’s a little bit of that disconnect just because we don’t have our own high school yet, so the fact that students go off into wherever is where it can be kind of disconnected, and you can lose some of those skills. But, overall, I think the high work, high expectation environment was really really good.
I don’t know how often I talked with fellow students about grades or school when we got a chance to talk, but something that was in place was the redo and makeup policy, which was very helpful. You got a chance to try again and again. I think that sets you up for success because you get more practice and I felt like there was a good offboarding of that. In my sixth-grade year, you got to redo as many times as you wanted. In my seventh grade year, you only got to redo once. In my eighth grade year, for the last trimester, it was no redos because you’re going into high school now and they won’t let you redo. I thought it was good that you’re starting to build them in sixth grade and try until you get it right. In seventh grade, sometimes you only have limited chances. By eighth grade, put in all the effort right away and try your best.
The main thing I’m always going to bring up is the community. The community that CCA-Dana had is a community I haven’t found at another school. Even students who weren't doing as well were still there and succeeding in some ways because they could trust the people around them and their adults to help them. We had phone numbers for teachers and could call them until 8 PM for homework help. The availability and safe space were right there. It was just a matter of learning to use those resources over time.
Ciana: I now work in the Alumni Services department to help alumni like me. However, the service is newer and was unavailable to me when I was an alumna. How would you like Alumni Services to grow in the next five-ish years? That’s a soft deadline!
Kathryn: A soft deadline? Okay! Yeah, man. It’s so interesting. I spoke with one of our alumni last night, and she told me that United Schools does alumni services better than her high-performing private high school and Ivy-League alma-mater.
I know you and Caroline [Durbin] work so hard, and there’d never be enough time to do everything you want to do with and for our alumni. That was really re-affirming, like, wow, this is someone who knows what she’s talking about and is saying we have a quality program.
Where would I like to see it go? When I was a School Director at Dana and we started Dana, everything was: “You’re going to college. You’re going to persist in college, you’re going to graduate college. You’re going to have these college-degree-required careers, and that’s what will make you successful.”
A couple of years ago, before you were in the role, it hit me when talking to Caroline that our alumni are not going to college, by and large. Many of them are not — some of them are, and they’re finding success there, which is great, but most of our students are not graduating from four-year institutions. Caroline brought it to our attention that we’re not doing enough to support other kids who are not taking that pathway. I’m very thankful to Caroline for opening up that door: we can have this dream of and value in college, but if that’s not where we are right now and that’s not where kids need help with right now, then we’re not serving the majority of our alumni. Most of the kids I talked to last night are on some kind of pathway to better their careers and education. For some people, that's a four-year college, but it was something else for most kids I talked to last night. Their own business, an associate’s degree, a certificate program, welding, all these other things. I really believe in the “opportunity-rich lives” part of our system aim. I want our kids — our grown people, now — to go out there and be happy and have the resources to do the things they want to do, have the lifestyle they want to have, and be comfortable. That’s where I think the work is finding more and more ways to support along those lines, as you guys have started. And I think if we can have a high school someday, it will shorten that gap and close those four critical years where a lot can happen. Where we can really keep an eye, we can get them through that part and have more hands-on support when they enter that phase where that pathway begins.
Kathryn: What are your lasting impressions of your time at CCA? What sticks with you most as you reflect on your time as a student at CCA?
Ciana: Gosh, there’s just something so special about being the start of something. I feel privileged to be the starting class and see it through. Especially the Boys and Girls Club part was so fun.
Kathryn: No one died! No one fell off the balcony! Someone only got stuck in the elevator that one time!
Ciana: We were talking about that last night at the reunion!
My lasting impression… even outside community input, I remember my first year [...] the last hour of our day, we could go down to the Boys and Girls Club, and they would hang out and do programming with us. In my 7th and 8th grade years, we had After School All-Stars and got to do all these programs with them. I think I took a survival class with one of them! Diana [Wakim] was teaching us French at one point! There were just all these cool opportunities for fun at the end of our school day; that was really important to me as a middle schooler because it was a lot of work for middle school. You’re there longer than most other middle schools, but it was very rewarding to, at the end of the day, do something fun that was still with the same group of people. It’s a very disciplined environment, so there’s not a lot of talking in the middle of class, so that’s what I think really helped my class get so close in that community where we still want to show up and see people all these years later at a reunion.
I think high school placement, too. I have a strong memory of that because it was similar to looking for a college, which prepared me for the future. That was one of the first decisions that felt like my choice at a young age; I went on tours of high schools, brought the information home to my mom, and advocated for what high schools I wanted to attend. You guys took us on all these great field trips. I really loved the high school placement program. Even back when I was in eighth grade, I think they did a great job of just seeing these schools and making the decision for yourself, especially after years of school in a high-discipline environment when you’re like, “It’s my turn to make the decisions! What do I want next?”
High school placement is so great; I wish it were more [robust now]. But we have a lot of other great programming that needs time now, too. There are only so many hours in the school day! It’s still doing great, I mean, especially as an alumnus that gets to work in Alumni Services and gets to pull up all the data — almost every single student who had committed to a high school had committed to a Tier 1 or Tier 2 high school, which means the graduation rate is super high, so just knowing that they were deciding for themselves to go to a high-performing high school. They really care about it; they want their education to continue, and they want to succeed!
The Huddle: Do any reflections from this conversation really stick out to you?
Kathryn: You don’t often get to talk to someone who was your student in this way. I used to say, “The world will be a better place when my students are in charge of the world.” It’s kind of cheesy, but I mean it! I mean it when I say that I think the people who come to our schools and the kids we get to work with are the salt of the earth, the best people that I get to be with in my life — not just because they’re smart and funny, but because they are good people who want to make the world a better place. Really, the dream come true is when you guys come back and work here. There’s nothing better. It’s absolutely a dream come true that I got to be your School Director, your teacher, Ciana, and that now you’re here and you work here, and you have these amazingly thoughtful things to say about your time, and that I still get to learn from you and how we can continue to do the work and do it better.
Last summer, sitting down with Ben Xabouathone [an alumnus-turned-staff-member] for so long and having several conversations before he started working here really rejuvenated me after the pandemic and made me think, “There are things we’ve taken our feet off the gas on that are really important.” This conversation with you and some other alumni I’ve talked to… it’s so important to me to keep the fire going and think about what’s most important.
My reflection is that this is a dream come true, Ciana! You guys literally make my dreams come true over and over again, so thank you.
Ciana: I had a lot of fun reliving the old days and talking about that. I think it was really valuable to urge myself to think about the school that I loved because I knew that I loved my time at CCA-Dana, so just had the time to think about what exactly I loved and what was important to me. That was super valuable. Getting to hear your perspective and even some of your story, where you started and how you ended up here… it just gives you a lot of faith in this school network to see where people have come from and why they ended up here and the fact that so many people stay. I feel like that was a big reflection point for me. Something I’ve really admired about you, especially in this session, is that talking to you today has given me a greater appreciation for your passion for this school network. Even though we are working together now, I really don’t see you that often!
Kathryn: I know!
Ciana: As you’re talking, your eyes are almost glassy…
Kathryn: I know, I could cry at any moment! The drop of a hat!
Ciana: … it’s because you care so much! Even with the little things, like the spirit stick presentations. Knowing that the school's culture is so important to you is something that I think is really cool about you, and I’m happy that you can still care this much while finally getting that work-life balance.
Kathryn: A little bit! I’m so proud of you. You’re doing all of the things!
Kathryn and Ciana share a hug as the interview comes to a close. Discussion about United Schools, life outside the classroom, and the futures ahead of them continue as belongings are gathered and calendars are checked. As the two continue on to their regularly scheduled meetings, Kathryn remarks that she only wishes the interview could have been at the end of the day, with the two talking into the afternoon.
Connection is a hallmark of United culture, and this is a glimpse into the dialogues that define our campuses.
